Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Cazzie]

A question for all to ponder...

I've just been reading through the thread "Thinking of throwing in the Towel and Walking Away" and towards the end there was some discussion about predisposition to MI, or perhaps genetic weakness. @Espoir @Alessandra1992 @Snoo @Kiera80 

It took me back about 7 years to when my youngest step-daughter was admitted to hospital as a suicide attempt.  We live six hours away and had to make an urgent run from our place to the Gold Coast to see her and talk with her doctor, etc.  Our "darling daughter DD" told my husband that it was his fault she was like she was; that she'd inherited her mental instability from him.  She had been diagnosed with "generalised anxiety disorder (GAD)" and was of the firm belief that she would've been fine if her father didn't suffer from PTSD.  I was horrified by her statement and could see my husband shrinking inside himself, believing that she told the truth.

When we had a chance to speak with her doctor I made a point of asking if she (the doctor) had told our daughter this because it was obvious that my husband was feeling extremely guilty.  The Dr said they were unrelated mental health issues (although it was probably that someone with PTSD would also suffer from anxiety and depression) and that she had no idea where our DD had got her information.  Having gone through that I then mentioned that DD's maternal grandmother had suffered from a neurosis whereby she felt everyone was watching her and talking about her and would, from time to time, refuse to leave her house because of this.  The Dr said again that they were unrelated mental health issues but if MI were genetic then it was more likely that the GAD our DD was suffering could have come down through that line.

But let's get real here.  My husband was in the Police Force for 29 years seeing humanity doing unspeakable things to each other.

Our headstrong DD was in a relationship for 10 years (including about 4 years of marriage) to a man who was unfaithful to her and when challenged lied about it and kept telling her it was all in her head and that she "needed help".  Eventually the truth came out but by that time she was taking mild medication for her anxiety.  She went into another relationship (on the rebound) with a fellow some 8 years her junior (she was in her late 20s at the time) but he soon realised that she was too old for him and left the relationship.  Hence the suicide attempt.  But to this day it's my belief that she blames her mental health issues on her father's PTSD.

Does this mean that PTSD is therefore genetic and that all three of my husband's children will eventually suffer from it?  I don't believe so.  I believe it's possible that any one of them could undergo something so traumatic at some time of his/her life that he/she will be diagnosed with some form of post traumatic stress but I don't believe PTSD is a genetic predisposition.

My brother-in-law also suffers from PTSD (he was a police officer for over 30 years).  Is it only because they're brothers that they both suffer the same complaint?  Or is it more reasonable to say that the two men suffer because of the work they did, the things they saw and the life experiences they were forced to undergo because of the work they did?

I have no idea whether other forms of MI are hereditary or not.  I agree with @Espoir , genes are there.  So many of our attributes are decided by genetics - both our strengths and our weaknesses.  If physical attributes can be genetic then why can not MI be genetic? 

Like @Alessandra1992 I dislike labels.  What I dislike even more is hearing someone describe another person by saying "well, you just need to look at the parents to see where that comes from"!  "That" could be anything from bad behaviour (more likely to be caused by nurture not nature) to rudeness (ditto) or a physical attribute.

Have I opened a can of worms?

[Kiera80]

I don't believe PTSD is a genetic condition either.  I was diagnosed with PTSD after going through all the trauma with my sibling.  Little wonder! 

I am very much on the mend though and so long as there is no further major trauma in my life I should be able to completely return back to normal very soon. In fact, I'm almost there. 

I have never had any other type of mental illness in my life.

For me external influences had a major impact on my mental health and I know that nothing else was the cause of this.

In regard to my sibling who has BPD, depression, anxiety, paranoia to name a few I don't believe any of that was inherited. I do remember that even from a very young age my sibling was very different to me and still is to this day.

The oil and water, chalk and cheese sayings apply to us perfectly.  We couldn't be more different.

Does that mean as first born I got all the good genes and my sibling then got some defective ones?  That doesn't hold up to me.

I think the discussion on this will continue to remain a can of worms but I find it very interesting to talk about.

[Alessandra1992]

Hmmm I think how we become carers or consumers is a part of our story..but I am always wary of attributing cause to genetics...there is a wealth of research on trauma, and I think many many people have experienced trauma in a myriad number of ways. Some people it doesn't scar, and for some people trauma scars us deeply, and often manifests years later..or in the patterns of how we relate to the world or with our relationships..
Blaming isn't helpful, but it does make sense that we all try to make sense of what is happening...I think carers often try to make sense of situations too..is it the drugs? Bullying at school? Is it my fault?
Hopefully though, what remains important is hope..that no matter what the situation is, we can hope our situation improves over time..

[kristin]

Hi @Cazzie  

You ask some excellent and important questions. My understanding of the state of research on MI is that some conditions are considered to have an underlying genetic predisposition (eg bipolar) but that whether they are expressed or not is down to the nurture/environmental factors. 

PTSD is what it says, and anyone can get it. @CherryBomb just posted this clip on the LE forum - I think you might find it helpful in clarifying. You may also be interested to read this thread on the links between MI and trauma.

I've read a lot about this, and thought about it a lot too. I have bipolar and C-PTSD, my former partner has bipolar and C-PTSD, we have a 6 yo (she has PTSD). I have two older children whose father apparently has Apergers (not diagnosed), a school psychologist commented on his Aspe traits when assessing the kids (both very bright). My mother, and both of my siblings, had bipolar (only one is still alive). So you can understand why I am so interested in this - when I first found out I had bipolar too I felt like we'd given our little girl a life sentence in bearing her. I now see it is far more nuanced than that.

One of the key things believed to activate the expression of bipolar is trauma. This is where the nurture part comes in - nurture is important in building resilience. Which helps to protect against traumatisation in the event of trauma. But how much can it do so? Frankly your DD's simplistic accusation of your husband is off. His PTSD suffering may have contributed to her GAD, or maybe not. Hard to say.

It is always easier to blame someone else for our illness than to accept we have this and may (or may not) have any responsibility for being in that boat ourselves. The question begged here is not "who is to blame for it?" This is not going to help anyone find a path to wellness. It is profoundly victimising to say someone else is to blame and leave it there. Then we don't need to do anything. This will keep us unwell forever. If we accept that it is our own life which is affected in this way and no one is going to deal with the consequences except us then we have real motivation for working on it. 

If I can use myself as an example here for a minute. I was neglected and emotionally abused by my mother (as were my siblings), her neglect opened the door to sexual abuse by others during my childhood (and my siblings'). Is she to blame? Well yes. Do I also blame those who abused me sexually for my illness? Yes. Does this help me? Well a bit - it's not my fault, which is helpful as shame in the face of childhood sexual abuse is very common. But it won't help me live a fuller life. Most, maybe all, of the people who abused or neglected me are dead. I need to find my own journey to wellness, because it is only me and my family who will suffer the consequences for my choosing not to.

I think the important question is "what are you going to do about it?". Not in a horrid or judgemental way, but in an ownership of the problem way. When we have a MI we cannot be rescued, no matter how much we might wish for that and another might wish to offer it. It doesn't work. What works is finding compassionate, competent help and finding one's own path through the mire.

So hope for a journey to wellness endures...

Kindest regards, 

Kristin