Talking about not talking

[Phoenix_Rising]

Hi @TheVorticon,

I'm glad you made this thread, I am interested in what you have to say. I find it really helpful just talking stuff out here in Forum Land without any expectation of a response. I very rarely tag anyone other than the moderators on the wave thread because I don't want anyone to feel they need to respond.

I am really interested in your experiences and how you feel they differ from a lot of what you read here in Forum Land. I have a vague memory that you identified as being aspie, is that right? If it is (and I haven't muddled you up with someone else!!!), do you think that may explain why your experiences differ to those of others around here?

I kind-of have a foot in both camps, being aspie and having BPD. However, I am slooooowly trying to figure out which parts of my muddle are due to BPD (a mental illness) and which are due to being aspie (a neurological difference). This is important to me because mental illnesses can be treated whereas being aspie is an essential part of who I am. It isn't an illness to be treated, it is just a difference.

I love your comment about the tribes not talking because they are eating marshmallows. That created a very funny image in my head. During the few years since I figured out I was aspie, I have discovered that a lot of people with autism talk about finding their "tribe" when they get diagnosed as adults. I really relate to that. I think this is what has super helped me to be more ok about being me in recent years. I'm not weird...I'm just a cultural minority (i.e. neuro a-typical) in a neurotypical world.

Words such as "weird" and "abnormal" seem so value-laden. I really like the word a-typical because to me, it doesn't carry those negative connotations. It simply is what it is.

I really hope you can learn to feel more ok in your own skin @TheVorticon.

[TheVorticon]

Hi @Former-Member and @Phoenix_Rising. Sorry I’ve been so slack with replying, I’ve been physically sick and not really up to proper conversation but seem to be on the mend now.

@Former-Member thanks for the (long) reply. I’m alright with reading long posts, but replying to them tends to be a challenge. So I apologise if this ends up sounding too dismissive/blunt/short. Maybe next time I should reply as I read, to avoid the separation between initial reaction and reduce the mental rework.

Thank you for saying that I’m interesting. I certainly don’t think so, and I imagine that most people who talk to me wouldn’t get that impression either.

Your lunchtime strategy sounds like a good way of dealing with mundane conversation while also doing something healthy for yourself.  My usual strategy doesn’t work so well – trying to blend in, silencing myself when there’s nothing interesting to add. That was my entire high school lunchtime experience; it wasn’t quite so acute at university but still present enough to be disappointing. Now I just avoid those sorts of scenarios where I can.

That would be a useful technique, but I really do struggle to think of appropriate questions to ask someone about themselves. The amount of times I’ve been in a conversation with a looping mental dialogue of “think of a question. Think of a question. THINK OF A QUESTION!” Which I know just means I’m not truly paying attention to the other person. I’m trapped in a tiny vacuous prison, with walls so dense that not a single intelligent thought could make its way in our out. It would feel more natural to tap out a beat on the table than to try in futility to make conversation across it.

I'm more used to people telling me that the things I'm interested in are wrong, childish, dumb, or just letting their look of disapproval do the talking. So I stopped sharing them with most people. Thank you for doing the opposite and allowing me to feel alright about them. 

[Former-Member]

hello @TheVorticon

your response might be late but is actually quite timely

am feeling pretty rubbish at the moment but moving on from there. I responded elsewhere that instead of having mental illness I am going to go with I am permanently jet lagged.

had to laugh about your denying being interesting. we are all so good at not accepting compliments. we have given ourselves so much rubbish self-talk that when someone actually takes the time to state the opposite we immediately tell them that they have to be wrong!!

questioning others can be come quite entertaining. I used to put this in practice if there were others whom I was avoiding. Quietly thinking to myself, as I yawn internally, how much the person loved the sound of their own voice. Some people were very surprised that I was talking to them I think. Have to accompany the questions with a smile. Generally speaking, I found some very interesting people to talk to whom I would never have guessed how intelligent they actually were.

I think also I just reached a stage where I was able to pick out the group huggers, the followers on, the I need to be noticed, need to be seen with the right people, attention seekers etc.

If people are rude at work, go for a walk or read the paper, a novel, have done that too. smile, hello and open up the page...yes time to go back to work...smile and wow home time.

we never know what the other person is truly thinking and do we need to??

[Phoenix_Rising]

Hi @TheVorticon,

I definitely find you interesting.

I had an awkard social situation I had to navigate on Friday. Someone at my volunteer gig nominated me to give a new volunteer a lift home. It was like "oh Phoenix_Rising lives just near there, she will take you, won't you Phoenix_Rising." Er...yeah...

It is about a fifteen minute drive and I had to work super hard to maintain a conversation with this random stranger. I have definitely learnt over the years that it is important for me to ask questions about the other person so that they don't have a chance to ask questions about me...because there is very little in my life that makes for good small talk! I seem to have developed a knack for letting myself become genuinely interested in what they are saying, which makes questions somehow come more naturally into my brain. It is hard to explain. It's like...my strong preference would have been to not give this person a ride home and I didn't really have the remotest interest in her life. However, once she started talking, I could somehow let myself feel interested in what she was saying and this naturally raised questions in my mind.

It turned out that she and her family had recently migrated from Russia. So...I asked what prompted the move, then why they specifically chose Australia, then how long the process took, then what her kids had thought of the move, then whether she already knew English...etc. In this way, we managed to make the entire trip without her asking a single question about me.

This is definitely a learnt skill on my part - it does not in any way come naturally. I think I've really worked at it because I know that if there is a silence, there is the risk that the person will ask something about me.

I don't know if that is remotely helpful to you @TheVorticon, but at least you can know you aren't alone in this dilemma.

[TheVorticon]

@Phoenix_Rising that does sound like a difficult social thing to deal with. It sounds like you handled it really well, and all the stuff you’ve worked on has really helped in navigating those situations.

I suspect I wouldn't even be able to think of anything to ask, since typically I can't ever seem to imagine what additional details might be interesting/relevant until someone offers them. I know I need to ask something, but in the moment I absolutely cannot think of what would possibly be appropriate to ask. But oh well, it’s not like I could get much worse at holding conversations so it’s only up from here!

Regarding your previous post, it’s cool that you’ve been identifying some of the parts of your muddle that are related to being aspie, and separating them out a little from parts related to having BPD. I like how you describe the difference in terms of being neuro a-typical in a neurotypical world, as I imagine it’s somewhat challenging when most people, systems, cultural norms etc. are all set up by people with a difference in how they think and process information.

I suspect I may have some aspie-like traits, but after consideration I don’t think that an aspie diagnosis would fit me. I’m not sure why I have had typically disappointing experiences with moderators here, I’m not sure why I feel so worn out trying to respond to most people here most of the time even when I actually do want to respond, I’m not sure why I sometimes read words that people type and then can think of nothing but the accidental song lyric that they typed or something else that would be inappropriate to voice, I’m not sure why I feel like there’s something extremely obviously defective about me that everyone else can recognise instantaneously but for whatever reason no one has ever been upfront with me about it.

But anyway, thanks for the aeroplane socks. I heard you’ve caught a cold – I hope that clears up for you soon.

[TheVorticon]

I have sort of quit playing Pokemon Go. From my history of times that I have quit playing games that used to be important to me, I know I need to be careful with what comes of that.
I’m not doing that well tonight, and not doing that well at keeping my thoughts off things that aren’t helpful to think about. But it’s no biggie, and for the moment I legitimately don’t care whether anyone replies or not. Maybe I’ve had enough marshmallows for the night.

[Former-Member]

@TheVorticon

Hello there 

I know that you don't care whether or not you get a reply...

so you need not read this if you Choose not to

I am struggling a bit at the moment. When I am I notice that I am extra sensitive also irritated and lacking in tolerance 

people annoy me...

I can easily imagine people are thinking all sorts...so I keep telling myself to stop thinking 

Fact...most people are busy thinking about their own lives, issues, anxieties, whatever 

have a peaceful night free of thought 

[TheVorticon]

Sorry to hear that you're still struggling at the moment @Former-Member. Are you still describing it as being jetlagged? I've only had travel-related jetlag once, and I was fighting off sleep any time I sat down for more than 5 minutes. Jetlag would be a "socially acceptable" reason if you find that you need to explain how you're doing to people who wouldn't otherwise understand.

There are certain types of people and ways of thinking/talking that I think I will always perceive as annoying, but I am in 100% agreement that it's more widespread and acute when I'm already struggling with something.

I hope you had a good night and have a good day today.

[Former-Member]

Hello @TheVorticon

Yes I could excuse it away as jet lag only 3 weeks ago

I dont think that it is any more

I am dealing with mixed feelings, worrying about my older son which is a very long story

I have a psyche appointment tomorrow so can offload some there

Yes I am sure that we can all confess to finding certain people annoying,,,,life

hope that you have a good week ahead and spread some of that great humour you have

take care

[TheVorticon]

I hope your psych appointment went well @Former-Member, and that you found a way to free yourself from some of those worries about your son and the mixed feelings.